HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

Noticed a few of you guys using the M-Scaler to up-sample. What musical benefits are you hearing?

I'm going to get a trial of HQ Player to up-sample to DSD to the RME DAC, which has a DSD Direct facility, taking away the filtering from the DAC (which some say is an advantage regarding noise reduction and overall performance) - anyone else had a play with HQP?

Personally I dont have experience of HQ player, however I have found benefits from both the Mscaler (44.1 KHz up to 705.6 KHz) and also from a Mac based software package Amarra Luxe.(44.1 up to 176.4 KHz) Generally the benefits are around a broadening of the sound stage, and what I can only describe as a more analogue sound - less fatiguing. These benefits were discernable with both a Chord Hugo 2 and a PS audio Directstream DAC There is an article by Jay Luong (Audio bacon) that put the Mscaler head to head with HQ player - linked below - he suggests settings that come close to MScaler. Will be interesting to read your findings

https://audiobacon.net/2021/03/17/hqpla ... -upscaler/

The benefits of up-sampling came to my attention when I heard 192 kHz streams of favourite albums on Qobuz. Most sounded so much better. As a Qutest owner, with the dual BNC inputs required for maximum up-sampling (44kHz to 705kHz, above to 765kHz), I had to hear the Mscaler.

It was something of a revelation with the sound stage taking on a new dimension with a greater sense of space. Bass definition had improved and the music was more enjoyable. The effect of the Mscaler really hit home when the loan unit was returned and I had to wait some time before one was in stock.

I must add that the benefits of up-scaling are system dependent. The Mscaler did nothing for me at the dealers partnered with the top of the range Rega amp and 3.5K Spendor WAF speakers. The less than favourable subjective reports I have read about the Mscaler are through speakers, I have not come across any through headphones. I think this says a lot about popular modern speaker designs.

To these ears up-sampling combines the best of analogue and digital. What is lacking in digital, often referred to as emotion, is now present alongside all the plus points. Digital has now come of age. The 44 kHz ceiling was the restraint and I am 100% convinced that frequencies way above the range of human hearing effect what we hear and our enjoyment of music. Just don't ask me to provide an explanation.

i totally get why higher sample rates may sound better, i tend to find the same if i compare a CD rip to the same think in high def.

Assume for a minute its not just down to better mastering.

What I really struggle with is how upsampling can make any difference? The data is just not there in a redbook file so to upsample is pure guesswork.

That said I had a Pioneer CD with a Legato Link DAC back in the day. Its USP was supposedly that it guestimated what frequencies were missing based on an extrapolation of what was there. On some stuff it worked well (usually simpler vocal stuff) but it fell of when given anything more complex to deal with

montechristo358 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:59 pm

What I really struggle with is how upsampling can make any difference? The data is just not there in a redbook file so to upsample is pure guesswork.

This is the main argument of the sceptic debunkers. I go on the evidence of my ears and the difference upsampling makes is not subtle. Perhaps the data is there in the Redbook but is not being extracted? I don't know.

There is an upsampling function in Volumio that can be set to a variety of output sample rates.

Effect varies from device to device; the Pi2-based players struggle with the extra processing involved but my i7 PC has massive over-capacity and manages with ease.

With that, the 'sweet-spot' is 192KHz, with 384 sounding a bit too cold and clinical. 96 is also pleasantly rounded and musical.

CN211276 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:53 pm

montechristo358 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:59 pm

What I really struggle with is how upsampling can make any difference? The data is just not there in a redbook file so to upsample is pure guesswork.

This is the main argument of the sceptic debunkers. I go on the evidence of my ears and the difference upsampling makes is not subtle. Perhaps the data is there in the Redbook but is not being extracted? I don't know.

It's a valid question, so let's not start throwing labels around to those who question it. The MS is not cheap, so a little common sense and healthy sceptisism are appropriate I'd say.

I've only listened to the Hugo TT and MS once, at the Windsor Show, pre-Covid. I had taken my own cans. Being entirely honest, the environment was entirely unsuitable for critical listening. Too much noise made it impossible to form a conclusion about what MS was, or was not doing.

I'd love to listen to that combination again one day though.

I'm not sure how I feel about upsampling in all honesty. After some poor initial choices, my own journey has taken me firmly down the NOS road. I understand the difference between OS and US, there's no confusion there. Rather I have a love of listening to the unadulterated track.

That said, I have never listened to US done well. Perhaps I should reserve judgement

To complicate matters further, I'm sat listening (all afternoon and evening) to a (early 1990s?) 14-bit Philips 371 CD player that Mark brought up for me to try while my server is being up-spec'd for HQ Player. It's a really, really engaging listen. They're widely available for around £20 and can be improved with a bit of fettling - I think Vinyl-Ant has done so with a similar model. It's a funny old game...

savvypaul wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:44 pm To complicate matters further, I'm sat listening (all afternoon and evening) to a (early 1990s?) 14-bit Philips 371 CD player that Mark brought up for me to try while my server is being up-spec'd for HQ Player. It's a really, really engaging listen. They're widely available for around £20 and can be improved with a bit of fettling - I think Vinyl-Ant has done so with a similar model. It's a funny old game...

The Philips 371 uses dual TDA1541 DAC chips - regarded by many as being the best-sounding, most musical decoding chips ever made, a very simple NOS design.

My Teradak DAC's use the later and similar TDA1543 which produces a lovely, warm involving sound.

Old tech - can't beat it.