Subjectivity. Linn's contribution in the 70's?

[CN211276]

……….. the money Ivor paid the Thatcher Government to keep trading standards off his back.

Do you have any evidence to support your accusation?

From what Richard Dunn posted on this forum and I respect his opinions. It is in the archives along with a telephone conversation he had with Ivor about it. He was seriously affected by the distorted market along with others manufactures. It is well known that Ivor was a backer of the Conservative party leaning to the right.

[CN211276]

Surely this went on for many decades- I remember late 80s early 90s reading about how wonderful the linn Lp12 was - I never knew about DD nor Idler either- run both atm.

I liked their tonearms n a couple of speakers but hated their cartridges- I was a Thorens fan

Yes it did go on for decades because it's harder to convince someone that they've been fooled than to fool them in the first place.

That's why it's doubly annoying when someone paints this as Linn doing some good for the world of audio. When so many people spent so much money on so many purchases over so many years.

Instead of the subjective meritocracy we should have had, we had a subjective theocracy.

[DaveyTed]

In "defence" of Linn, think of all the work they've generated in the ongoing LP12 upgrades.
Not only did people spend a large amount of money firstly buying the product but continued to spend "improving" it.
And when it didn't live up to the hype, you were told it was not set up correctly so you paid to have it set up.
Sell an LP12 and repeat business for life.

[Daniel Quinn]

Linn did nothing wrong, they tried to sell as much hifi as possible using any means available to them. . Acolytes on the other hand !

[CN211276]

In "defence" of Linn, think of all the work they've generated in the ongoing LP12 upgrades.
Not only did people spend a large amount of money firstly buying the product but continued to spend "improving" it.
And when it didn't live up to the hype, you were told it was not set up correctly so you paid to have it set up.
Sell an LP12 and repeat business for life.

Or 50 years and they still have not got it right.

[Geoff.R.G]

I’m sure I have said previously, probably more than once, that the very first reviews of the LP12 were not complementary. I remember reading them. I also remember wondering why something that wasn’t well received was now flavour of the month.

I never bought one, I went for a Thorens TD160 with an SME arm. I still have it. At that time direct drive turntables were expensive and idler driver models were used in portable “gramophones”. I rarely listen to recorded music now, extensive exposure to live music has that effect.

Yes, cogging is possible with direct drive turntables and motor noise transmission via an idler does happen. Belt drive can sound good once the speed has stabilised. Unfortunately for some, cogging can be suppressed, idlers can sound good if treated with respect and belts need to be replaced regularly. There’s no perfect turntable and it appears that 50 years of tinkering haven’t, yet, perfected the LP12. Linn has no incentive to get it “right” that would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

[CN211276]

To give one example of hundreds:
The Trio KP-8080
Cost 100,000 yen in 1979 (about 470 yen to the £ at that time - making it an approx £212 for this turntable plus arm)
SNR of 83dbs Din B
Wow and flutter of .022%
https://audio-database.com/TRIO-KENWOOD ... -8080.html

The Linn LP12 had a wow and flutter of about .06%
I can't find the SNR. From memory it was nothing special.

It's a joke. The LP12 had a shitty little low quality motor. Whereas turntables of the ilk of the Trio KP 8080 had reasonable motors and motor control electronics.
Any DD having a motor as shitty as that on the LP12 may well suffer from cogging.
And by shitty I mean in the context of a turntable marketed as being the best sounding turntable in the world because of the quality of engineering in it.


The KP 8080 wasn't even Trio's top of the range turntable in 1979.
https://audio-heritage.jp/TRIO-KENWOOD/ ... l-07d.html

[CN211276]

I note that the Trio is automatic. I started reading hifi magazines in 79 and any turntable like that was the devil's spawn. I believed what I was reading.

[CN211276]

I note that the Trio is automatic. I started reading hifi magazines in 79 and any turntable like that was the devil's spawn. I believed what I was reading.

We all know that the LP12 is not automatic because Hamish Robertson designed the RD11 that way. Which is understandable given that the was a one-man-band design team, making his version of the relatively basic AR / Thorens turntables.

Trio on the other hand were a large Japanese corporation with the ability to add automation for reasonable cost.

Another interesting objective measurement is the weight:
Trio KP 8080: 14.5kgs
Linn LP12: 10kgs

[Hannson.UK]

……….. the money Ivor paid the Thatcher Government to keep trading standards off his back.

Do you have any evidence to support your accusation?

From what Richard Dunn posted on this forum and I respect his opinions. It is in the archives along with a telephone conversation he had with Ivor about it. He was seriously affected by the distorted market along with others manufactures. It is well known that Ivor was a backer of the Conservative party leaning to the right.

You still haven’t provided any evidence for your assertions. BTW I’m no Linn fan boy. I don’t own any of their products, but let’s keep the discussion factual.