You don't like pretty boxes, Paul?

[antonio66]

You don't like pretty boxes, Paul?

That was a question I got asked at the WAM by antonio66, who is also a member, here.

It's a great question. I hope he doesn't mind me repeating it, here.

Here's the gist of the conversation that led to the question:

WAM member: Sonore/SOTM/ Lindemann bridge (about 800ish) with a linear power supply ( 4-500). A full size box of similar quality could cost upwards of 2.5k.

Me: It would be a very pretty box, though.

antonio66: There are two Auralic Aries G1 streamers on ebay at present, both bidding auctions.

Me: Talking of pretty boxes

antonio66: You don't like pretty boxes Paul?

The easy answer is that I love pretty boxes. The prettier the better. The difficulty comes when you ask me how much I value pretty boxes. I know that a good quality off the shelf box for a streamer costs around £50 to £75...which becomes around £250 of the rrp on a streamer that is sold direct, and around £450 of the rrp on a streamer that is sold via a dealer. A prettier, bespoke box with some complications might typically cost the manufacturer £175...by the time that box gets to the dealer's shelf it typically represents between £1200 and £1750 of the item's rrp.

Now, how much do I like pretty boxes?

The answer is that we all have our own idea of value. The skill of the designer, the quality of the parts, the aesthetic appeal, the quality of service, the user experience (especially with streamer software), the potential to upgrade, reliability, the warranty etc... all can play a (greater or lesser) part, and then there are other less tangible factors such as peer pressure, marketing, and even the dreaded WAF.

In any market, knowledge is power. Value is an individual choice, so it is up to us as individuals to improve our knowledge, and if we have knowledge it is up to us to share it. For me, the Auralic streamers are not strong value, because I know how much of the rrp is for the case (and a display that I don't need, because I have a screen on my phone). But, I have no problem that others will love them. And, none of this is 'picking on' Auralic - they just happened to be the brand in the thread.

[Geoff.R.G]

Our church sound system uses five amplifiers, three Yamaha amps in identical, 19” 3U rack mount boxes, a Beyerdynamic amp in a 1U box and another Yamaha in a 4U box with pretty meters on the front. Quite why Yamaha thought meters on an amp for professional use were justified I couldn’t say. This pretty unit is mounted at the bottom of the rack, just far enough above the floor that it doesn’t get kicked, so the only person who can see the meters is the engineer. The majority of people who operate the system, all volunteers, never look beyond the meters on the mixer meaning that, even if they knew what the meters on the amp were telling them, they wouldn’t see it.

Which brings us nicely to the point, why is there a display on a piece of audio equipment? I can see some need for a display on a tuner or CD player and there is definitely a need on a recorder but even these are a distraction when listening. Do you watch the display? I don’t and my equipment is deliberately positioned so that I have to turn my head to see it. Many displays are too small to be read from a couple of metres away making them of little use if the equipment is positioned between the speakers. The same applies to a DVD/Blueray/HD player/recorder sitting under the television.

None of the above even considers the cost of the box, and the display, or the mark-up applied by the manufacturer. Nor is the inevitable EM radiation from the display electronics, what effect does that have? I find pretty boxes unappealing but they obviously attract a certain type of buyer otherwise they wouldn’t be available.

[NSNO2021]

I think anyone that knows me, knows I like minimalism and I always struggle to pay extra for fancy packaging of anything.

The design in the link must have cost a lot to pull together and I like the curves and ribbing but not the meter, the meter really does detract from the clean fluid lines Gato has created with the case work. PS according to the pundits and user feedback this is a good amp, meter or no meter.

https://www.gato-audio.com/eu/amp-150.html

[Lindsayt]

This is coming back to the other thread about parts cost vs the price to buy.

To take a hypothetical example, if someone were to put together a system costing £10k.

They could go to dealers and buy a brand new system where the parts that are in the signal path, or that affect the signal path cost £0.5k to £1.5k.

Or they could go down the used and DIY route where the parts cost was £5k to £20k.

Then it's down to following decent design principles to ensure that the greater parts cost is reflected in the sound quality.

When I spend money on hi-fi I like to be ambitious when it comes to the price I'm paying vs the original parts cost. Quite a lot of the stuff I've bought in the last 14 years has had a higher original parts cost than the price I paid for it - when adjusted for inflation.

I suppose it all depends what turns you on. Some people are attracted to pretty boxes. I'm attracted to good engineering for the price I paid.

And then there's prettiness from a distance, that looks cheap when you get up close or look under the bonnet.

Which reminds me of an accounting clerk I used to work with. From a distance she always looked fashionably well dressed. Close up you'd see that every item of clothing she ever wore was made from polyester. No cotton, wool, linen, silk ever touched her skin.
It was her choice entirely. And it served her well enough.

[slinger]

Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder, and I think this looks full-on gorgeous.

[slinger]

What I'm learning here is that...

we can make the new integrated in a minimalist case and sell it for £2k,

and then we can put the same guts in a case with meters and whistles and sell it for £4k.

[antonio66]

The most striking looking hi-fi dares to be different:

[slinger]

Even minimalism can go astray sometimes... Check out that remote though

[Geoff.R.G]

The problem I have with “Interesting” boxes is that they need to be displayed and I just don’t have the surfaces to put them on. My main power amp is on the bottom shelf of a stand, it is just as well that it is little more than a box with chamfered edges. My other power ams are just boxes with fluted heat sinks on the front. The only indication on any of them is a single LED. Nobody needs to see them. Unlike children, hi-fi should be heard and not seen.

Sorry Slinger!

[antonio66]

What I'm learning here is that...

we can make the new integrated in a minimalist case and sell it for £2k,

and then we can put the same guts in a case with meters and whistles and sell it for £4k.

I most certainly don't mind you starting this thread, very interesting thoughts from everyone. I have always liked the looks of NVA equipment, simple yet effective, the only problem, acrylic scratches easily, but I understand why it is used, so fancier boxes made of acrylic, can you get them Paul? When I see some of the cases that diy'ers use, I think how good they look, and not expensive when ordered from China. A question that ought to be asked, would you by an amplifier that you didn't like the looks of even though it sounded great? I have to say the Gato amp above certainly has eye appeal, I quite like the meter in the middle although it would also still take my eye if it wasn't there. For some reason seeing the Gato reminded of Mola Mola designs https://www.mola-mola.nl/
which I assume would be quite expensive to make with the wavy top.